VW Diesel and the BP Oilspill, which is worse?

"whatisthatsound" (whatisthatsound) 09/23/2015 at 16:40 • Filed to: None

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I was driving home today from work and listening to NPR talk about the warchest VW has set aside for the fines. They are mentioning how it might not be enough money to cover the fines.

In June of this year BP agreed to pay 18.7 billion when all is said and done. The max fine for VW is near 18 billion as well. Now speculators say it won’t reach anywhere near that amount, but in my arguement VW will pay the max amount of fine per car.

BP’s money is paid to local people, states’ recovery efforts, and national fines. VW would go to the EPA correct? What pollution is worse for long term effects, and which fines are just. Both cases were caused from known deficiencies by management. Their negligence resulted in harm to the environment and 11 direct deaths in BP, and a hypothetical number of premature deaths caused by smog.

Oppo what do you think? Who did worse? Who should pay more, and what do you think is fair?

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 16:50

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It really depends on how much worse the emissions are than they should be. It is feasible they could be more harmful long term overall. That said even the cleanest diesels become soot burping cancer boxes when they get cheap and are bought by someone who's never heard of servicing.

Van Man, rocks the Man Van > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 16:50

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BP Oil Spill by far. It killed tons of animals and therefore jobs, as well as a bunch of other awful stuff. No one and nothing have been directly hurt by Dieselgate. Yes, they lied, but by cheating on the NOx tests they improved fuel economy and CO2 emissions. It’s a classic example of making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about.

jariten1781 > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 16:51

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Meh, doesn’t matter. Would you rather bathe in a tub of vomit or diarrhea?

Just fine them what’s appropriate and on the books. Don’t make new retroactive fines and don’t give in during negotiations and let them walk. If the fines on the books are too low, change the limits and get it back when the next guy steps out.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 16:51

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After all the appeals and what not the fine will go way down. When stuff like this happens people want to make a big statement, and 18 billion is one hell of a statement.

And the answer to your question is the BP oil spill.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 16:52

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The faster VW fixes this, the cheaper their fines will be. It seems like they’re being pretty open about everything now, so that should help

Ash78, voting early and often > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:03

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As an Alabamian, BP hands down. Direct, measurable impact to a specific area, its tourism, fish, etc....vs nebulous and widespread damage across a very broad area, in a manner that was already being done by other pollutants.

Take a shit in my cereal bowl or take a shit in my backyard. One of those is going to be worse.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:07

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Exxon fighting the fines for the Exxon Valdez spill for over 20 years?

whatisthatsound > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 09/23/2015 at 17:11

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Thats interesting because of how relatively quick BP was told to stop with the nonsense and pay up.

whatisthatsound > Ash78, voting early and often 09/23/2015 at 17:13

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I was hoping you would throw your opinion in. When I moved to Pensacola in 2013 everything was cleaned up and the water was beautiful. I never saw the damage I only saw the bounce back. Thanks for your opinion!

Punk_Girl_98 > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:15

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R. Kelly not getting convicted is worse.

RallyWrench > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:17

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The common denominator there is the law firm VW has hired, the same that defended BP. As far as damage, the BP spill and negligence is far worse.

Ash78, voting early and often > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:24

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Sure thing...I just saw firsthand some of the other, lesser-known externalities of that, like how many landlords, condo projects, and banks suffered (and failed) from the trickle effect of the lost tourism dollars, stalled construction, tainted fish. It was really sad — and then to make things worse, the fraudulent claims started rolling in and taking funds that should have been earmarked for people who actually deserved them. For a while, there were whole cottage industries about how to embellish or falsify claims.

Those kinds of payouts are always full of fraud.

whatisthatsound > RallyWrench 09/23/2015 at 17:26

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They hired the same firm? Hilarious

Klaus Schmoll > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:29

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Deepwater Horizon spilt so much oil that most of it couldn’t be recovered. The (huge) area may look somewhat fine today, but the damage is done and it will take the ecosystem ages to fully recover. 1000 TDIs with the cheat software won’t do to the environment or the health of local people what one coal-roller does.

Sure, VW broke the law and needs to be punished hard for that if said laws are to be taken serious, but on a larger, environmental scale it’s nothing. BP was an environmental disaster, VW is just a PR disaster.

If someone wants to sue VW for getting cancer, they should go for the coal bros first. They just don’t have any money, so it’s not that lucrative.

Saracen > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 17:42

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A half a million cars really represents a very, very small percentage of all the pollution emiting vehicles, tools and machinery out there.

We’d remove a whole lot more pollution by eliminating two stroke lawnmowers and weedwhackers.

The BP spill, however, destroyed an entire ecosystem. It was far more disastrous.

On that note, my dad who has worked his entire life in the petroloeum industry, said that it wasn’t entirely BP’s fault...I forget all the technical details, but every company involved fucked up in some way. But of course BP were the ones to take the fall since they are such a massive company.

Dslay04 > whatisthatsound 09/23/2015 at 18:03

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Its not even close. The Oil spill

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Punk_Girl_98 09/23/2015 at 18:14

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Ever seen the episode of The Boondocks entitled “the trial of Robert Kelly” its funny, but sadly true.

Punk_Girl_98 > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 09/23/2015 at 18:42

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Lol no I haven’t.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Punk_Girl_98 09/23/2015 at 19:00

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It’s on Netflix. You’ll enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy Sum 41.

Wheelerguy > whatisthatsound 11/09/2015 at 02:12

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Nah, BP was worse. Didn’t even scratch out a title.